Danny
Ok let’s fill our bellies! For this review, I’m talking to a fellow Sigmar’s Pilgrims club member and our resident glutton, Andy – can you kick things off by telling us about your Mawtribes experience up until now? You’ve definitely beaten the average win-rate with them and you’ve been playing them for a fair old while right?
Andy S
Hello, yes I’ve been playing Ogors as long as I’ve been playing AoS (since 2nd ed.)! I started with a mixed army of mainly dad bods and a big angry cow but that army was really struggling so I made the switch to running a full Beastclaw list. I managed to keep my win rate around 50% but then King Kragnos got his glow up! Since then my win rate is at around 70% and I recently took second at the one-day Sigmar’s Pilgrims event, the Big Bristol Brawl.
Danny Salfield Wadeson
So obviously you won’t have got any new games in with the new book yet but from what you’ve seen on paper – what do you think, if any, are gonna be the biggest differences to how the army plays – or CAN play?
The thing on everyone’s lips of course is the Ironblasters… 2 shots at 30” for d3+3 damage – rend 2 nat or 3 with the subfaction has definitely got some portions of the community in a hot sweat
Andy S
No, yet to play the new book, trying it out next week against the new slaves which should be very fun!
Honestly I don’t think a lot has changed in how the army plays… it’s still a very similar army and fans of ogors will still love this book. For me the army still wants to be charging as they get access to so many MW’s and buffs on the charge and just as before they have access to lots of high damage attacks!
A big change I’m very happy to see is the addition of rend to the gluttons (-1) and ironguts (-2)! I think this, along with the buffs to cannons that you mentioned, as well as to leadbelchers (in the Underguts subfaction) has really helped internally balance the book and I think will lead to a lot more dad bods (carrying cannons) hitting our tabletops!
Danny Salfield Wadeson
Nice, that’s good to hear – and GW have been transparent (as of yesterday’s Metawatch) about their internal balance process, so it’s good to see it’s paying off atm. I know you’re a mammoth fan – let’s double down a bit on the kind of charges we can expect now. Stonehorns and Frosties have been been tweaked, there are new monstrous actions – the one I think is especially strong is ‘Unstoppable Charge’ for allowing a 3D6 ‘flying’ move from there, dealing mortals to stuff they pass over. What do you think the best CHARGE! combos are now – between unit/sub-faction/enhancements etc?
Andy S
Absolutely – the MVP of the last ogor book was without a doubt the Frostlord on Stonehorn (FLoSH) and if anything they have evolved with this battletome! In terms of their warscroll they now have 15 wounds on a 3+ 5+, of that wasn’t enough the new Boulderhead subfaction now gives them an extra 2 wounds. Combine this with the Rockmane Elder mount trait (-1 wound) and you’ve got a big angry cow that’s very, very, tough to kill.
For me 2 FLoSH’s is the way to go but swapping one, or including a Huskguard on Thundertusk (HoTT) as well is a really solid option at only 330 points. In Boulderhead that’s a 16 wound priest on a 4+ save with the ability to add a 5+ ward from a mount trait (another great reason to be in Boulderhead – it lets you take 3 mount traits).
The HoTT also give you access to the other new monstrous action which, although not as good at the new stonehorn one, makes all enemy units within 3” fight last on a 3+ (roll separately for each unit).
Danny Salfield Wadeson
3″ fight last – albeit on separate rolls – is not too shabby is it? You can definitely see the synergies opening up around double charging mammoths ploughing through screens and making for some interesting activation sequences.
And you you did a good job there of calling out some mount traits – what do you feel are the biggest winners and losers of the artifacts and command traits? 3e books in general have been solid in general but a few books have had one thing in each category which makes it really hard not to take it in competitive games. To me, they actually seem pretty sweetly balanced for Ogors!
Andy S
I think, as you said with some other 3e books there are a couple of command trains and artefacts that just won’t see any play my competitive players! However, there are a couple of nice options for each depending on the army you’re running.
For the Gutbusters side of the book the Gastromancer command trait lets a butcher general know the entire Gutmagic lore (Ogors actually have a super spicy spell lore). The other pick for me would be killer reputation on a Tyrant which allows you to pick a second big name and can really help you to make a tanky food general for your army. For the artefacts I love the Flask of Stonehorn Blood which now gives the bearer a 3+ ward for one phase in the game… usually I don’t like one use artefacts but this could really come in clutch!
On the Beastclaw side Touched by the Everwinter is the auto pick command trait for me! Having one FLoSH as a priest (and another with arcane tome) really plugs some huge holes the army had before. For the artefact I love Seat of Alvagr which allows a SH or TT hero to perform 2 monstrous actions. 3d6 move over the screens straight into roaring a key unit – yes please!
Danny Salfield Wadeson
Yeah I was surprised just how good the spell lore looked, especially the Butcher lore! Making RHINOX units count as Monsters for the MWs on charges (CV5) and Molten Entrails – for +1 damage to a monster’s mount on a CV6 both seem super strong. 18″ -1 hit on a 6 is also fairly mad good.
And yeah, those enhancements in general all seem pretty darn tasty to me – on paper they seem to allow a huge range of directions to buff things meaningfully in – pretty impressive.
You mentioned Boulderhead earlier – is that going to be your sub-faction of choice? Do you think the others give some different vectors of play – and either way, are there meaningful options for competitive play in there?
Andy S
Yea it’s always been a good lore but this book has brought lower casting values to some of the spells which really helps… park a butcher next to the mawpot for +1 to cast and it’s actually got some casting power.
I think Boulderhead is the go to when playing multiple stonehorns for sure… an extra 2 wounds on each monster and allowing you to take 3 mount traits is fantastic!
There are definitely other options depending on how you want to play – without a doubt you want to be in Underguts if you are running multiple cannons and units of leadbelchers as the extra -1 rend makes that one of the best builds in the game currently I think. If you want to run Gutbusters without leaning into the shooting, or even a mixed force, then I think Meatfeast is a really fun option, suddenly your units of Ogors are doing MWs on 4+ and then hitting like a truck!
Danny Salfield Wadeson
It does seem like a really viable set, which is great – 3e books in general have been pretty good, but there have def been some books with a couple of complete dud subs that only very diehard narrative fans would run!
Penultimate question here – which warscrolls do you think are the biggest winners and losers overall? Let’s forget the Gnoblars as it really seems they need to be FAQd. Anything you were disappointed didn’t get a glow up, or any units you think finally got made competitive?
Andy S
Yea great question! Without a doubt the cannons got a huge glow up, probably the biggest in the book. So many ogor players already owned at least 1 or 2 Ironblasters and it’s great that they can finally see the tabletop! Is this the start of GW making artillery great? Probably not but it’s fun whilst it lasts haha! Gluttons and Ironguts have both also improved massively – the extra -1 rend to both units and the change to the paired weapons options for gluttons is a glow up I was really hoping for! The whole gutbusters side of the book how has a chance to be competitive!
For me, as a predominantly Beastclaw Raiders player, one of the biggest losers in the book has got to be the Stonehorn beastriders (the Thundertusk variant doesn’t deserve a mention haha)! It’s bonkers that the models still don’t have the elite keyword so they are essentially useless if they go off alone which is exactly what they should do… they took away the crossbow shot (despite the fact the model carries one) and it’s got a 4+ save and hits on 4+ with its best attack… I’ve played a few games now and I’m very unimpressed!
Danny Salfield Wadeson
Them not having the elite keyword is definitely very weird. I feel like that might be an FAQ issue – but yeah I hear you on the other things. I guess a lot of ‘current’ Ogors players are basically BCR players so this has probably caused a wave of disappointment. Like you say – foot Ogors with great rend, once per game double-fight on the choppy lads, backed up by genuine shooting gives the book some really well-rounded angles.
Of course, aside from killing stuff you need to be able to score. How do you feel about the matched play rules? I feel like the DoK book started a recent 3e trend for ‘auto-score’ BTs, and ‘Eat Your Fill’ – which is essentially have all your units in combat, and ‘Savour the Taste’ which is the opposite, have nothing in combat – are thematic but kind of ridiculously reliable and un-interactive? ‘Let Them Loose’ – complete 4 Monstrous Rampages – is also going to have a fair few ‘guaranteed opportunities’ if you’re running ‘Horns.
Andy S
I think BCR were the competitive pick for sure but most ogor players have Gutbusters (even if they were collecting dust) so most are enjoying the chance to get them back out!
Might makes right is the same (better for ogor foot hero’s now who count as 5) so the army is still capable of taking and holding objectives – more so once expert conquers disappears. With rangers to the matched play section of the book it’s truly dreadful from start to finish – not a positive word to say about it I’m afraid!
Danny Salfield Wadeson
Can you elaborate? Do you mean in the sense you don’t think they’re easy to score or you’re not happy with the ‘interest value’ of them?
Andy S
Of course! For the Grand Strategies they are terrible. Ready to plunder is just take what’s theirs reworded, On the Mawpath requires you to complete FOUR book battle tactics in a game, Sage of the Monster Hunter requires your general to kill a monster and enough grub for all needs a full mawpot at the end of the game (it must have been emptied and refilled). As much as auto complete GS such these feel like a combination of impossible and copycats… for me they’re just a waste of ink and paper!
The Battle Tactics are slightly better to be fair… still not great but I think situationally you could see yourself picking something like Avalanche of Flash (cause more than 10 MWs from charging in a turn) if you had all your big boys lined up with kragnos behind. One of the ones that require you to have all or none of your units in combat could also come into play turn 4/5 if fewer units are in the board! Again, overall I think book BTs are meh though!
Danny Salfield Wadeson
Interesting! We’ll def be seeing how they shake out in the meta very soon, as they’re a popular army and they’ll be coming out of the woodwork with the new book.
To wrap up – stick a pin in where you think they’ll land competitively. Will the combo of good ranged output and tanky, fast monsters catapult them into A tier – or do you think it’s a big internal balance improvement that will struggle to win events? Who do you think are their red match ups?
Andy S
I think they will settle nicely in the mid-tier following their FAQ, unless cannons and gnoblars remain untouched then they will probably be higher! I think we will definitely see some good player pilot them to 5-0 with 4-1 being very achievable now.
In terms of red match ups – on the BCR side I think they are still very susceptible to good shooting/magic at range so armies! I envisage the new StD book being a massive red match up for the gutbusters too having played one game against them, good saves and decent rend on certain profiles will make for a really tough game!
Danny Salfield Wadeson
Interesting, I def see them as top third, maybe better – I know the results we’ve seen so far are probably somewhat down to the surprise factor – new books with glow ups often have that kind of spike, and Gnoblars MW output is surely broken and not long for this world. But they just have all the tools- strong long range firepower that’s hard to charge (because of the 10 shots with unleash hell), fast, durable monsters with shenanigans and slower, super heavy hitting foot troops. I feel with the 5+ wards the ‘Horns have, magic isn’t too oppressive for them, but I do see them potentially struggling against large tanky infantry units.
A big thanks to Andy for his time and thoughts on Ogors – which he’ll no doubt be terrorising our club with in the very near future. Follow him on Insta at @apprentice_of_sigmar
